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Post by thevisitor on Aug 26, 2005 2:14:50 GMT -5
WOW excellent post. Would the answers be Bewley and Stefan ?.
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bubo
New Member
Posts: 19
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Post by bubo on Aug 26, 2005 2:43:58 GMT -5
No Java available this morning. Demi-tasse, fresh ground Columbian in hand... First off, the two members at MDTM with 500+ posts would probably be Stefan and Keith? You tell a familiar story there, bewley, particularly with regard to people shutting up shop, boxing up collections and giving up on the hobby. One can only throw away so many discs before despairing of the situation! At the risk of sounding negative, most members will be attracted to any site offering downloads, first and foremost for those very downloads. Many will choose not to participate further which, in my opinion, is a tragedy. Forums such as this will at least help to keep some of the fledgling friendships made at ZiC/MDTM/SJ moving along. It's a good start but even here, where downloads are not currently the prime focus, relatively few of the members are participating. Some of the best comments made at the former SJ site for me began in the form of "I was at this show and..." Personal recollections of a particular event helped to bring the recordings to life. Each time I listen to Beauty Before Outrage, I can't help but chuckle at the thought of Zippy with a tape recorder strapped to his back under a great coat in the middle of summer! Almost all of the membership would be able to make such comments at one time or another but most choose not to. I believe that we need to get away from the attitude that "sharing" must include something physical like an artwork or a recording. Sharing thoughts, opinions or technical know-how are equally as valid, maybe even more valid if building a community is of any importance. Inviting and encouraging the membership to submit articles or share thoughts would help to relieve some of the load, or at least make the situation less disheartening to those in the front line. Of course, this would require a change in attitude from "look what I can get here" to "I wonder what I can offer here". Just a quick thought for the lurkers out there. Even some of the most taper friendly artists are anti-torrent. Why? Because the very nature of "torrent trading" removes much of the need for personal interaction between fans and as such does nothing towards building communities or friendships which forms the basis of their taping policies. So, join in, why don't you
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bewley
New Member
Shoot All The Clowns
Posts: 17
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Post by bewley on Aug 26, 2005 10:06:19 GMT -5
The thevisitor got 50% correct! Just for the record, bewley was a) an admin and b) had over 6,600 posts. As to bubo... I have plenty to say in response, but it will have to wait until I am out of the office. Gotta work for "the man" don't you know! But... First off, the two members at MDTM with 500+ posts would probably be Stefan and Keith? YOU ARE CORRECT. Keith was a "heavy hitter" back in the early days of the board and stefan was the most vocal of the non "staff" during the SJ days, racking up over 850 posts. As with your post, well done!
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Post by stefan on Aug 26, 2005 10:13:37 GMT -5
stefan was the most vocal of the non "staff" during the SJ days, racking up over 850 posts. 888 to be precise. I don't think they were all relevant though
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Piras
Junior Member
Uut Grunn
Posts: 82
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Post by Piras on Aug 26, 2005 11:42:35 GMT -5
I don't think they were all relevant though You can say that again!
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bewley
New Member
Shoot All The Clowns
Posts: 17
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Post by bewley on Aug 26, 2005 22:52:51 GMT -5
Well d**n! There was a post here earlier today that made an interesting observation and bemoaned those who bemoan about participation. The observation was that in every community participation never meets expectation and the workload is always carried by the few.
I will agree that is true -- in most cases. However, a site like Dime completely shatters this idea. Yes, there are mods and admins who work hard keeping the site up and running, but the content is 100% dependent on and provided by the community. It is true that Dime does have 100,000 members, thus increasing the odds that a few dedicated souls will show up, but with well over 9,000 torrents currently available and well over 57,000 uploaded in the past two years or so (actually, probably closer to 75,000+ considering they lost their database last year), that tells me A LOT of people are participating and that the few are not carrying the weight of the many.
My posts in this thread were not an attempt to bemoan anything or anyone, rather I was given my reasoning behind the closing of MDTM. Those with good memories will remember that I once posted on MDTM that SJ never attempted to be a "community", rather it was nothing more then a "provider".
Looking back on things, I believe that this was a mistake. We were so focused on that whole "where quality counts" tag line that we lost the opportunity to actually build a community. Wouldn't it have been so much better, for example, if we opened up the site and allowed others to upload? Although there would have been trade CD-R's of unknown generation and probably more then a few MP3 to CD discs, wouldn't giving other people the opportunity to shine, and taken some of the burden from the "staff", have made the community stronger as a whole?
Or would this have been viewed as a bad thing as any poorly done upload would have been nothing more then a black mark on the site regardless of the other material offered?
Anyone want to offer an opinion on that?
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Post by dopazo on Aug 26, 2005 23:26:02 GMT -5
I know that the members of this forum could be divided in 3 groups. Those that really like the conversations, although were spaced in time, on concerts, discs, doubts, memories, etc. Another group registered to see if concerts or DVD similar to those of SJ will appear here. And a third group that saw the link, registered to see what we have here and most probable, do not return.
I believe that to create a real community first we must feel this forum is OUR community and all of us have a role in it. A place to share bowie's music and our own interests. And for that we don't need thousands of members. Perhaps it is only necessary that 50 of us post constantly to create our community. (Never I was a great poster because in English i write very slooow)
The main thing is that this forum exists because WE want it. Each one must share thoughts, ideas and be active so in this early stage of the board we could develope what we need to create OUR community.
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Post by dopazo on Aug 26, 2005 23:35:40 GMT -5
Looking back on things, I believe that this was a mistake. We were so focused on that whole "where quality counts" tag line that we lost the opportunity to actually build a community. Wouldn't it have been so much better, for example, if we opened up the site and allowed others to upload? Although there would have been trade CD-R's of unknown generation and probably more then a few MP3 to CD discs, wouldn't giving other people the opportunity to shine, and taken some of the burden from the "staff", have made the community stronger as a whole? Or would this have been viewed as a bad thing as any poorly done upload would have been nothing more then a black mark on the site regardless of the other material offered? Anyone want to offer an opinion on that? i know a site, Pedro's BTmusic tracker (illegal stuff but i downloaded the ryko bonus tracks that i can't find anywhere ), where are "vip" people who can upload albums while they follow the rules about ripping and encoding. They have to include log files, fingerprints, crc checks, etc to show all was well done and the FLAC are perfect clones of the original CDs. If you don't follow the rules, you're banned. Maybe we could make something like that so more of us could upload their boots. The only thing is that we can't be sure if every upload came from silvers.
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Post by goblinking on Aug 27, 2005 5:28:37 GMT -5
A frequency analysis might also be appropriate too. :-) Many of us would be able to give the time to check our titles. :-)
CHeers, Goblin
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korupt
Junior Member
Posts: 64
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Post by korupt on Aug 29, 2005 14:40:39 GMT -5
I would like if someone could make a graphical picture for this site that I cold use on my tracker that would like back to this forum also. I dont want to take anything away from this forum but at the same time I would like to offer my tracker for your use also.
If you would also create a set of upload rules to follow, I would also include those as the footprint for uploading on my tracker also.
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Post by homebrew on Aug 29, 2005 17:07:29 GMT -5
Bewley... I think that was probably my post about group participation that you saw. A few minutes after posting it I realized I didn't like the tone of it and deleted it.
In short, there will always be a very small fraction of people in any group that actually participate. The others are just along for the ride for a variety of reasons.
I was speaking primarily of administration and organization. But in the sense that everyone who connects to a torrent has to participate on some level... yes, the "participation" is higher in that regard.
HB
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Post by starboy on Sept 14, 2005 9:29:38 GMT -5
Hello to all my new BOWIE-fan-Friends:
I don't think this question has been asked or answered. It is possible we can beg for or purchase the archived posts from,Savage Jaw and MDTM? It would be a great resource and archive, that shouldn't be lost to the ages !! (or "owned" by 1 individual sad but true floods and fires happen way to often, with all repect to the Gulf Coast) It would be a great blue print for what needs to be "re-created" here. There was research done and questions answered by YOU folks. That would be essential to insure the quailty of what gets circulated.
thanks for caring !! ps I think 1 easy task that should be started here at Waiting for Savage Jaw is a LINKS SECTION to bowie sites we "trust". Also don't get be wrong. But We may have to face the facts, and maybe "re-name" THIS site. I propose Wishing For Savage Jaw
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Post by goblinking on Sept 14, 2005 10:01:10 GMT -5
Although the hurricane has hit, and ISPs have been flooded, I believe they have been preserved at this stage.
I don't know how hard it would be for the old MDTM articles to be transferred to a different messageboard, or whether it can even be done...
CHeers, Goblin
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dodo
New Member
No one lifts their hands, No one lifts their eyes, Justified with empty words
Posts: 25
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Post by dodo on Sept 14, 2005 13:40:14 GMT -5
Going back to some of the arguments Bewley and others brought up, about the number of members in a forum or site that write posts, I think it is absolutely normal that they end up to be a few, usually the same ones. I have been in an italian fanclub forum, velvetgoldmine, from almost two years, and it has many members, but the ones participating in discussions etc could be about 30. Usually if one writes for more than three months, he or she ends up being an habituè, and the site I'm describing is not a torrent sharing site, but more like this one. The community there is very very strong, we even meet often, we have annual bashes, changing city every year and in those occasions fans come from all over Italy. We also go to eat pizzas or meet at someone's house at least once a month, for those of us who live in Rome or Milan, we exchange bowie material, we even have glam nights at times or bowie covers 'cause some of the members play or sing...all of this thanks to the forum, because before joining I only had one friend who liked bowie, a school companion. Now I even have solid friendships, and surely we always have company if we must go to some venue of many musicians. All this to say that it's a great idea to form a community, even if of course it is more difficult when people are from different countries, still even if people don't meet physically, there can be very nice relationships in any way, writing is a wonderful way of communicating, and who knows, we could organise an international bash once a year too! Even if my work and family don't leave me much spare time, I think we could all try to form a "community"...it makes one feel good.
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Post by steve1962 on Sept 14, 2005 15:40:45 GMT -5
On a lighter note, I hope I'm not the Drunken Welshman that Bewley mentioned earlier!!
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